Search results matching tag 'Brakes'

Brake Master Cylinder help - Some new & old thoughts to consider

AlanH — Tue, 05 May 2009 04:00:00 GMT

Use this Referenced Thread as a foundation for what follows: Front Brake Hydraulics 101 :

One Foot Engineering based on the enclosed photo tells me that the JOKER MC has a shorter pivot point, Dim 'X', as well as reduced piston stroke which might explain their recommended applications for single (9/16") & dual (11/16") disc frt brakes...

Feature Joker's exclusive self-lubricating polymer piston and seal kits, also produced by Joker; special ball bearing-actuated piston rides in a hard-surface roller-burnished bore for more precise feel and longer life as the bearing glides across the piston as you engage the brake or clutch

The shorter Dim 'X' will result in an increase of leverage (higher psi) but at the cost of brake fluid displacement (less In³ of fluid to caliper/s)

When the front wheel is in motion the rotor & piston cups slightly repel the pistons.... Read this referenced thread: Front brake constantly rubbing rotor?!?!? so the 9/16" MC displacement could be an issue with the 2-frt stock 4-piston calipers. Because of the shorter stroke the brake lever will hit the grips before suppling adequate displacement to push the pads against the rotor and allow for the compressibility of the fluid (yes, fluid is compressible)

The Warrior MC displacement is undocumented as there is no info of the total stroke of the piston. My educated guess is approx 1/2" - 5/8" ??
You'll want your new brake lines no longer than required and the inner membrane of the lines to be equivalent to Galfer's smaller design.
With the dual caliper install you will get better modulation, less fluid displacement and compressibility using a 3-pc hose which has less area.

HHI Billet Handlebar Brake Control

Stock Brake Lever-Warrior
View of 1.00" CL - Pivot Point to Piston Contact Screw. M8 Pivot Bolt Hole & M6 screw x 0.75 fine pitch th'd

Front Brake Hydraulics 101

AlanH — Fri, 01 May 2009 04:00:00 GMT

[quote user="wyomingwarrior"]

Make sure you get the 11/16" for the dual caliper application. I looked at the same set (I think) but decided to go with the HHI control but in 9/16" cause I'm going down to a single caliper in the front. Here's a link for the one's I looked at... not sure what price you were quoted... maybe this are cheaper?

Joker: http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=0611%2D0017

[/quote]The stock Warrior Master Cylinder (MC) is 14mm bore = 0.5512" diameter

If retaining the OEM dual frt calipers you'll want the 9/16" bore = 0.5625" diameter which is slight larger than the stock MC.

The larger 9/16" bore size will very slightly diminish the front braking forces because of the larger area and less psi at the calipers. This larger displacemet will also produce a firmer feel at the lever!

With a single 4-piston OEM caliper you'll want a smaller bore yet than 9/16" to increase the psi at the caliper. Other considerations would be to install a single 6-piston ISR unit to regain braking. Also, consider a radial MC and other high performance brake products to regain your losses!

Some early & Late Topics on this subject: Increase braking power http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/21012/326061.aspx#326061 , http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/21012/326063.aspx#326063 , http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/21012/326065.aspx#326065 and also this by Frankenstein: http://www.fxstein.com/blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=57&blogId=1

Opinions wanted on front break setup http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/115457/938496.aspx#938496

CLICK ON PHOTO to Enlarge

Re: Rear Brakes?

AlanH — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 04:00:00 GMT

[quote user="rubo"]

yes i do have the hidden cliper mod and i did trim some of the inside of the swingarm.. And the cylinder does come out so i dont believe it could be stuck.

[/quote]Here's some reading mat'l on this subject. I suggest you review all the threads within the topic as well as alternate methods for trouble shooting this problem:

Brake Bleeding w/MityVac -update: http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/108539/900405.aspx#900405

Bleeding the rear brake: http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/25072/368693.aspx#368693

This is my methodology and how i gravity bleed for reference only:

Installing New SS Brake Lines: http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/26284/380798.aspx#380798

High Brake Pedal: http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/23226/349075.aspx#349075

Brake Lever Adjustment - Advice: http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/25910/377402.aspx#377402

Master Cylinder 101: http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/115176/941168.aspx#941168

Master Cylinder 101

AlanH — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 04:00:00 GMT

[quote user="Marco Polo"]

Does that mean that that rubber gasket isn't supposed to suck in like the new one did or is that still normal even though the original designs didn't?

[/quote]My .02 once again ..... the channeled accordion rubber gasket should suck in as the brake fluid is displaced in the reservoir. The top cap should have a means to vent so that it's not under negative pressure

The purpose of the rubber gasket is to seal the brake fluid compound from the outside air because DOT3~4 fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture as is intended. As the fluid compound becomes saturated w/ moisture the boiling point lowers which can lead to brake failure. DOT5 fluid is not hygroscopic but tends to aerate which makes it more difficult to bleed. Bottom line, the Warrior is designed for DOT4.

If you're not able to develop any pedal at all i would bet that the single cross drilled hole in the bottom of the reservoir (closest to the outlet) isn't aligned with the frt edge of the piston seal when the piston is retracted not allowing it to fill the chamber in front of the piston cup because of an improper adjustment of the pushrod. Brake pedal interference isn't an issue w/ FWD Ctrl's. The cross drilled hole furthest from the outlet port allows residual fluid back to the reservoir.

When manually bleeding the MC its best to always short stroke the piston and not bury or bottom it out. Remember the piston cup is crossing over the frt cross drilled hole every application of the brake

For testing purposes you can remove the rear brake hose and just use a short solid bolt w/ sealing washer and bleed at the bolt. If you can't get a rock hard pedal you've got something really wrong either in the adjustment or build!

GOOD LUCK

EDITED & FYI: remove and inspect your Yamaha frt brake MC cover which will confirm some of the above.

Re: Opinions wanted on front break setup

AlanH — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:00:00 GMT

Here's a couple of single rotor WOM's .... midnight run & dberman .... swapping out the frt OEM MC (14mm) to a smaller bore size will improve the braking characteristics of the single rotor w/ the stock MC! The smaller bore size will increase the fluid pressure to the single caliper. As you stated braking efficiency will be lost w/ the elimination of 1-rotor. Suggest you do a forum wide Search using these members & braking, etc!

Here's an Excel spreadsheet that has evolved & matured over a period of time showing some of the dynamics: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3621/3492345926_137f35f4a7_o.jpg

Proceed at your own risk. Standard disclaimer applies. My reply here is not an endorsement of this mod but a presentation of other members mods as requested.

Re: Radial brakes on a 2003 Warrior?

AlanH — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:00:00 GMT

TECK ... Radial mounted calipers REQUIRE the accompanying radial forks because of the caliper mounting bolts

Just my .02 regarding design differences & methodology of the later years ….

Changing to radial brakes on the '06' & > Warrior was cost effective for sharing calipers across the sports bike platforms as well as the frt forks.

If i was in the market for the R1 forks i would place an ad in the wanted in this forum: http://rswarrior.com/forums/28.aspx and also follow the Ebay auctions.

If you go with SS frt brake lines, i would recommend GALFER manufacture and stick to the shortest total length hose possible for less compressibility of the fluid! Don't order the hose until you decide what direction you go.

If braking is your primary interest, I think Oliver's aka Frankenstein conversion to the late R series MC pump and CRG levers is the way to go and you can stick with the stock '02' calipers, forks & rotors

Re: Front brake constantly rubbing rotor?!?!?

AlanH — Fri, 09 May 2008 04:00:00 GMT

Just my .02 ... assuming you have clearance @ the front brake lever adj scr and MC piston

Technically, the flexure of the square piston seal when not under hydraulic pressure relaxes the piston and it’s the centrifugal force of the spinning rotor that repels the pads. The floating front rotors can create an illusion that the pads are rubbing because of the fixed mount front calipers.

The rear brake is more traditional and forgiving as it’s a floating 2-pin caliper with a solid rotor. When you spin the wheel you’ll hear the high spot!

Re: Upgrade your Warrior Front Brake

AlanH — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:00:00 GMT

Oliver,

This is a very interesting mod to me based on my experience with hydraulics ... that 16mm radial master w/adjustable lever must put out more psi then the 14mm pivoted factory version.

Excellent write-up and hats off to you

Re: rear brake rotor

AlanH — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:00:00 GMT

+++ As already stated, use the shorter frt rotor screws
If you're into BLING, get some paint stripper and do this I used 3M Scothbrite pads and a bit of grunt work to look like this and then sold it to a member in NJ because i had already mounted my 240 rear wheel

Here's some more photos if interested: http://www.flickr.com/photos/15071518@N07/sets/72157622679393640/show/

Re: ISR Front Calipers

AlanH — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:00:00 GMT

11mm or 12mmm Bore if you are using the 1-stock Warrior caliper. The smaller bore will give you more hydraulic pressure and better braking.

Here's a link that i happened upon some while ago:http://www.mikesxs.net/mikesxs-chassis.php?category_id=1.2

quote:
Originally posted by ram396

Any suggestions on what master cyl to go with?? That may improve it enough to make a difference.