The Yamaha Road Star Warrior Forum

[updated 10-3-09 by ArizonaWarrior] 

While messing around with the bike I added a Rhatphlegm-type toggle to switch between ECU-Bump mode and Riding-Mode.  The Infamous Infidel Rat discussed his mod here: http://rswarrior.com/forums/t/27511.aspx.  The ECU-Bump was developed and documented by original forum members 'back in the day' however I used DFW_Warrior's write-up at http://rswarrior.com/forums/t/48956.aspx in conjunction with Rat's write-up to make this a breeze.

I added a longer black ground wire for extra room to nest the switch under the seat.  I also added a nice quality spring-loaded aerospace-type toggle switch safety cover.  This cover must be opened to switch into ECU-Bump mode.  The cover must be closed to fit the switch back into the underseat wiring nest, and closing the cover resets the switch to riding-mode.

[updated 10-3-09] I swapped to an On-On Heavy Duty Toggle, 20-amp 125VAC, with spade connectors, and I found a thinner screw-on rubber lever cover that works with the safety cover.  I wrapped the body of the toggle in self-vulcanizing rubber.  Then I soldered-and-crimped the spade connectors and attached #29 wire to the center 'supply' terminal, #27 to the load terminal that is powered when the safety cover is closed, and a black ground wire to the load terminal that is powered when ECU-BUMP mode is selected.  I grounded the black wire to the usual gounding screw that lives next to the oil filler tube.  Finally, I wrapped the wires carefully, including the sharp edges of the safety cover's mount plate, then I wrapped the switch area a second time using blue electrical identification tape.   [I did not use the blue tape this time].

For those new to this, if you want to do this mod, its handy to know that the 'wire numbers' are molded into the rim of the ECU plug where the wires enter (you have to look closely in good light at where the wires enter the ecu).

I routed the long ground wire so the switch would lay flat.  The pic below is obviously riding-mode with the switch nested. [added: the blue tape no longer exists]

Everything fits nicely, and it tested perfect.  Thanks to all the friendly forum members for the excellent info!

BTW I bought a good quality safety cover for the toggle switch here: http://www.thehotrodcompany.com/index.asp

(this shows a SPST On-Off, but I used a SPDT [updated 10-3-09] On-On)

Nicely done AZ.

Thanks

OldMan:

Nicely done AZ.

Prof...very nicely done!!.ya clever chappy you...lol...will post pic an arrow of nicks oil mystery...and he's not a novice on the warrior!!!...thanks for coming back to it so quickly...i'll pm ya tonight - cheers tom

sweet!  and I still have the same switch as in that old post - has worked out great!

Arizona Warrior:

For added protection, I used an On-Off-On SPDT Toggle, which has to go thru the Off position on its way to the selected position.  Over time, this will help avoid a worn switch from possibly powering both load wires.   I used a #31500 Ace Heavy Duty Toggle, 20-amp 125VAC and attached #29 wire to the center 'supply' contact, #27 to the load contact that is powered when the safety cover is closed, and a black ground wire to the load contact that is powered when ECU-BUMP mode is selected.  I grounded the black wire to the usual gounding screw that lives next to the oil filler tube.  Finally, I wrapped the wires carefully, including the sharp edges of the safety cover's mount plate, then I wrapped the switch area a second time using blue electrical identification tape. 

• The center position eliminates the ECU loop between 27 & 29 completely
• What can happen will happen is my motto...

Secondly, your justification and explanation for using the 3-position switch, as hi-lighted above, is not correct at all IMHO. The Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT) switch will always fail in one of the detended positions which would be the COMMON terminal (wire 29) to either GRND or #27 which are the switched terminals. The physical properties and failure rates of a 2 & 3-position switch for this application are the same!

• The only way the 2-switched terminals could have continuity to each other is if they were crushed in a compactor

My .02 here, is to use a 2-position detended ON-ON SPDT switch and focus on using a sealed moisture resistant device as there isn't an electrical load problem to be concerned about

• Thanks for the heads-up.  I bought one of each, I'll swap to the On-On if you still believe it makes sense.
• Would you have an educated guess as to what happens if, at idle in the driveway, I flip the switch? 
• [added] Wouldn't an On-On pass thru an Off condition anyway as one contact breaks and the plate is clear of both contacts?

It seems like a lot of products that used to be no-brainers are now cheaply built, and the manufacturer can't spell the word quality.  I looked for switches that appeared and felt well made, but I didn't want my ecu's condition to rely on only the appearance of quality.  In the past I've seen well-worn toggles get sloppy internally, probably I should not have been so concerned since this toggle will not be used very often and should last a lifetime.  My primary concern was keeping the switch from acting due to wire pressure (or whatever) while riding (what can go wrong will go wrong), and the purpose of the good quality aerospace-type safety cover is to keep 27 and 29 connected while riding.  I did not consider the off position a hazard since I would be the only person operating the switch, and there's no reason to switch when the bike is running since the bike must be stopped to bump.  Maybe that is short sighted looking ten years into the future, I don't know.

[added]

AlanH:

No disrespect to your efforts here for a fine looking job and interlock device but what you have done is introduced the possibility of a new undocumented ECU adjustment by using a 3-position switch.

• The center position eliminates the ECU loop between 27 & 29 completely
  • What can happen will happen is my motto...

My .02 here, is to use a 2-position detended ON-ON SPDT switch and focus on using a sealed moisture resistant device as there isn't an electrical load problem to be concerned about

I've ridden mine with the switch flipped before (Accidentally).  It didn't harm anything...

FYI

Cool.  This is good news.  It sounds like it could have gone the other way. I didn't get time today to test it, now I dont need to!!

Rhatphlegm:

I've ridden mine with the switch flipped before (Accidentally).  It didn't harm anything...

FYI

wow!!! ho ho...that's great info...who would have thought that it didn't matter if either was earthed ...a heart stopping way to find out....brave admission [gold star

Arizona Warrior:

• Thanks for the heads-up.  I bought one of each, I'll swap to the On-On if you still believe it makes sense.
• Would you have an educated guess as to what happens if, at idle in the driveway, I flip the switch? 
• [added] Wouldn't an On-On pass thru an Off condition anyway as one contact breaks and the plate is clear of both contacts?

It seems like a lot of products that used to be no-brainers are now cheaply built, and the manufacturer can't spell the word quality.  I looked for switches that appeared and felt well made, but I didn't want my ecu's condition to rely on only the appearance of quality.  In the past I've seen well-worn toggles get sloppy internally, probably I should not have been so concerned since this toggle will not be used very often and should last a lifetime.  My primary concern was keeping the switch from acting due to wire pressure (or whatever) while riding (what can go wrong will go wrong), and the purpose of the good quality aerospace-type safety cover is to keep 27 and 29 connected while riding.  I did not consider the off position a hazard since I would be the only person operating the switch, and there's no reason to switch when the bike is running since the bike must be stopped to bump.  Maybe that is short sighted looking ten years into the future, I don't know.

Arizona Warrior .... Like Yamaha says;
"We build it. You make it your own"

All you others planning to do this use a 2-position detended ON-ON SPDT switch and focus on using a sealed moisture resistant device with solder terminals as there isn't an electrical load problem to be concerned about

[updated 10-3-09 by ArizonaWarrior: I found a thin rubber boot that works with the safety cover] 

A toggle labeled 'moisture resistant' is a good idea.  But if it uses a rubber boot over the switch lever then the safety cover won't fit, and I chose to go that direction.  I'll look again after tuning is completed (which is now delayed to get the front brakes fixed), and when I can find a toggle labeled 'moisture resistant' that works with a safety cover I will slap one in.  I didn't find one locally, so while installing the switch I took time to pre-form and tin the wire ends, place them around the screw terminals, then momentarily heat them to melt the solder to the screw fastenings, then I wrapped the screws and wires, then the body, in plenty of good electrical tape.  Only the top where the lever enters the switch body has a potential for moisture access, or possibly it has a seal there too, I don't know. 

I got an answer on the question about 'on-on versus on-off-on' from another source.  Both pass through an 'off condition' so both have the same incomplete-circuit potential if the switch is actuated when the bike is running.  Rat's "field test report" (lol) seems to remove the worry.  I hadn't considered that possibility and I'm glad it works out to be a non-issue in this case.  What it means is I didn't need to buy on-off-on because even the on-on breaks before makes.  It seems likely most/all toggles do, so I learned something else!  It also means that both on-on and on-off-on act the same in this application.  One is as good as the other but, again, water resistant would be less maintenance over time [added 10-3-09: and the On-On switch is simply a better idea].

We are working on yards and chores and hopefully finishing up the front brakes today.  Maybe I can get a little riding in!

This topic turned-out to have a lot more to it than anticipated.  Thanks!

Arizona Warrior:

I got an answer on the question about 'on-on versus on-off-on' from another source.  Both pass through an 'off condition' so both have the same incomplete-circuit potential if the switch is actuated when the bike is running.  Rat's "field test report" (lol) seems to remove the worry.  I hadn't considered that possibility and I'm glad it works out to be a non-issue in this case.  What it means is I didn't need to buy on-off-on because even the on-on breaks before makes.  It seems likely most/all toggles do, so I learned something else!  It also means that both on-on and on-off-on act the same in this application. 

I'm saddened to see that you don't understand my 1st response on this subject which i thought was quite clear and concise

• The center position eliminates the ECU loop between 27 & 29 completely
• What can happen will happen is my motto...

Why don't you be the Pioneer on this new ECU adjust by putting the toggle switch in the center OFF position turn your ignition key-ON and try to enter into the diagnostic mode to make the adjustment

After that turn your key-OFF and put the toggle switch into the run postion and take a joy ride .... then report back to us your results

Rat's field test report is meaningless and not at all what is described above

Secondly, your original justification and explanation to use the 3-position switch over Rhatphlegm's 2-pos sw is absolutely incorrect and unfounded and that you can take to the Bank  

• For added protection, I used an On-Off-On SPDT Toggle, which has to go thru the Off position on its way to the selected position. Over time, this will help avoid a worn switch from possibly powering both load wires

Until you report back here to all of us i suggest the following:

• Anyone planning to do this use a 2-position detended ON-ON SPDT switch and focus on using a sealed moisture resistant device with solder terminals as there isn't an electrical load problem to be concerned about.

LOL snide remarks will get you nowhere - you crack me up!   

I posted my future intentions earlier.  Since the On-Off-On is already installed, it'll stay there for now.  Chiding won't make me change the switch any faster.

Before I learned elsewhere that toggles are understood to be break-before-make unless labeled otherwise, I bought both an On-On and an On-Off-On (as stated earlier) and decided to use the On-Off-On.  Moisture resistant was not available locally.  Obviously since the On-On actually does break-before-make, it turns out it will work fine.  But no matter which toggle, I'm still more worried about the toggle switch somehow getting 'switched' over the years under the seat - and less worried about entering DIAG with the switch in the Off position.  It doesn't seem a problem so the swap can wait.

Here are the possible circuit cases I considered before buying a switch:

Case 1 Riding Mode, 27 and 29 are connected as from factory.

Case 2 Bump Mode, 29 and Ground are connected for bumping the ecu.

Case 3 moving the switch to the Off position:

• disconnecting 27 has no effect because 27 is also disconnected in Bump Mode.
• disconnecting the Ground wire has no effect since then its not part of a circuit.
• disconnecting 29 interrupts the signal and may cause an error code, but there is no short circuit.
• if anyone has some insight to share on this case, I hope you'll share it so we all learn.

There doesn't seem to be a 'case' where a disconnected circuit would create a problem so I asked a couple of questions that were ignored.  I've said this before and I'll say it again, lots of us ask questions to learn as much as we can.  Then we make our own decisions.  Lots of us post our work in case it could be helpful and because we value fair critique.  We hope there's only good-natured ribbing in the mix if something was overlooked.  But even with the maybe-or-maybe-not-good-natured-ribbing I've learned some things, and I have a cool switch that keeps 27 and 29 connected while riding, covering what I decided is most important to me based on what I learned.  It's a win-win, thanks!

 

Arizona Warrior:

• Thanks for the heads-up.  I bought one of each, I'll swap to the On-On if you still believe it makes sense.
• Would you have an educated guess as to what happens if, at idle in the driveway, I flip the switch? 
• [added] Wouldn't an On-On pass thru an Off condition anyway as one contact breaks and the plate is clear of both contacts?

It seems like a lot of products that used to be no-brainers are now cheaply built, and the manufacturer can't spell the word quality.  I looked for switches that appeared and felt well made, but I didn't want my ecu's condition to rely on only the appearance of quality.  In the past I've seen well-worn toggles get sloppy internally, probably I should not have been so concerned since this toggle will not be used very often and should last a lifetime.  My primary concern was keeping the switch from acting due to wire pressure (or whatever) while riding (what can go wrong will go wrong), and the purpose of the good quality aerospace-type safety cover is to keep 27 and 29 connected while riding.  I did not consider the off position a hazard since I would be the only person operating the switch, and there's no reason to switch when the bike is running since the bike must be stopped to bump.  Maybe that is short sighted looking ten years into the future, I don't know.