The Yamaha Road Star Warrior Forum

Damon:

Heh.  I think it's been made pretty clear that most of the Christians around here couldn't give two sh!ts what Jesus would do.

By the way, I fully support executing murderers, but I don't support torturing anyone.  The concept is pretty disgusting to me, in fact.  But then again, I'm just an immoral atheist.

Do you not think that what a victim goes through is torture, those last thoughts they have. Sure maybe in this case the soldiers died

quickly, but hell he appears to be a traitor. I'm not a religious person but I do believe in an eye for an eye and to me that does not mean

a peaceful death to the criminal.

NJWarrior:

Damon:

Heh.  I think it's been made pretty clear that most of the Christians around here couldn't give two sh!ts what Jesus would do.

By the way, I fully support executing murderers, but I don't support torturing anyone.  The concept is pretty disgusting to me, in fact.  But then again, I'm just an immoral atheist.

Do you not think that what a victim goes through is torture, those last thoughts they have. Sure maybe in this case the soldiers died

quickly, but hell he appears to be a traitor. I'm not a religious person but I do believe in an eye for an eye and to me that does not mean

a peaceful death to the criminal.

"An eye for an eye" is also referred to as lex talionis, or the law of talion.  Talion is a punishment identical to the offence given, so a supporter of that principle would consider executing the killer proper punishment.  Lex talionis, as I'm given to understand, was devised specifically to prevent the sort of sadistic stuff posted above. 

Obviously, the phrase can't be taken 100% literally all the time, since the punishment can't always be identical to the offence, and there were some different interpretations and nuances, such as monetary values or other "equal" punishments assigned to some crimes where an identical punishment wasn't possible, but under none of these interpretations would sadistic torture be considered an appropriate punishment for murder.

Also, keep in mind that this is the USA, and we as a nation don't condone torture, so if you're into that sort of thing, I would suggest relocating to a country that's a bit more savage than this one.

Damon:

Also, keep in mind that this is the USA, and we as a nation don't condone torture, so if you're into that sort of thing, I would suggest relocating to a country that's a bit more savage than this one.

That's what Guantanamo Bay is/was for... so it's not in the USA.

From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

On July 2, 2008, the International Herald Tribune revealed in an article that the U.S. military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 had based an entire interrogation class on a chart copied directly from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist torture techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false. The chart showed the effects of "coercive management techniques" for possible use on prisoners, including "sleep deprivation," "prolonged constraint,"also know as "stress positions" and "exposure", all of which are imposed on U.S. as well almost all military personnel as part of standard initial training (but in isolation, except for the minority who go to advanced courses). The 1957 article from which the chart was copied, written by Alfred D. Biderman, a sociologist then working for the Air Force, was entitled "Communist Attempts to Elicit False Confessions From Air Force Prisoners of War". Other techniques used by the Chinese Communists that were listed on the chart include "Semi-Starvation," "Exploitation of Wounds," and "Filthy, Infested Surroundings," along with their effects: "Makes Victim Dependent on Interrogator," "Weakens Mental and Physical Ability to Resist," and "Reduces Prisoner to 'Animal Level' Concerns." The only change made to the chart used at Guantánamo was an altered title.^[25]

My heart go,s out to the families of the dead and wounded.As for my thoughts on what should be done to the lowlife that did it i think its better i keep them to myself as i might be seen to be a little insane.

Oh oh!  I have an idea!  Lock him up and only offer him pork chops to eat!  I wonder if he would starve or violate Islam?

Meatball:

Let's not trade freedom for comfort.

There must be some degree of safety (comfort) or there can be no freedom. There is no such thing as complete safety in a free society, but citizens do have a right to a reasonable expectation of safety and if this means profiling, I have no argument with that. Extreemism is the enemy of all people, weather it be in religion, police work or any other endevor. If the only pace you can be safe is your own home, and that's sometimes a question, how much freedom do you have? You mentioned slipery slope, but that's cuts both ways.

Damon:

Also, keep in mind that this is the USA, and we as a nation don't condone torture, so if you're into that sort of thing, I would suggest relocating to a country that's a bit more savage than this one. 

Hell, the bleeding hearts here even call water boarding torture.   I don't need a country that is more savage.  I'd just like to see the bleeding hearts grow a spine. 

OldMan:

Damon:

Also, keep in mind that this is the USA, and we as a nation don't condone torture, so if you're into that sort of thing, I would suggest relocating to a country that's a bit more savage than this one. 

Hell, the bleeding hearts here even call water boarding torture.   I don't need a country that is more savage.  I'd just like to see the bleeding hearts grow a spine. 

Meatball:

Was it that big of a jump? You went from one mentaly ill individual to racial profiling (by the way the guy was born and raised in the states).

I like how you just assume that he was insane just because he committed a heinous crime. Did you get some medical report that the rest of us didn't get? Are you saying it's absolutely impossible that this guy was sane, knew the difference between right and wrong, and made a concious decision to kill others that didn't believe as he did?

Because if you ARE saying that, then you've just painted a large section of the world as criminally insane.

Look, I'm not saying that mental health WASN'T a factor, but to just jump to that conclusion in the absence of medical proof is wrong. Sane people commit horrible crimes all the time. I'm not making any assumptions or letting this guy off the hook until someone shows me some proof.

Very interesting postings.  If the the terrorist is in the military wouldn't he go before the tribunal?  Then end up in Leavenworth?  I would think things would be take care of there.

The real sad part is now We get to pay to keep him alive, We get to pay to make him better, We get to pay for a trial, and We will get to pay for the mental screening, and we will probably get to pay for him to live in jail the rest of his natural life.  My heart goes out to the deceased, the wounded, and their familys.  Too bad his life wasnt ended then.

BOSSMAN2677:

The real sad part is now We get to pay to keep him alive, We get to pay to make him better, We get to pay for a trial, and We will get to pay for the mental screening, and we will probably get to pay for him to live in jail the rest of his natural life.  My heart goes out to the deceased, the wounded, and their familys.  Too bad his life wasnt ended then.

As much as I agree with you at least we're not paying HIM anymore for making others mentally healthy and performing those screenings.  I had a fairly close friend who is a pyschiatrist and my in-laws were both mental health professionals and I have to say, it takes a "special" kind of person it seems but this guy is off the chart.

OldMan:

Damon:

Also, keep in mind that this is the USA, and we as a nation don't condone torture, so if you're into that sort of thing, I would suggest relocating to a country that's a bit more savage than this one. 

Hell, the bleeding hearts here even call water boarding torture.   I don't need a country that is more savage.  I'd just like to see the bleeding hearts grow a spine. 

Who's a bleeding heart?  I fully support execution, I just don't get off on torture and suffering, that's all.  

Why don't you give waterboarding a try, like this journalist did, before making a judgement.  It's not just bleeding hearts who call it torture - it's pretty much everyone who's not trying to justify sadistic acts to the sane people.

Damon:

Why don't you give waterboarding a try, like this journalist did, before making a judgement.  It's not just bleeding hearts who call it torture - it's pretty much everyone who's not trying to justify sadistic acts to the sane people.

"The interrogators would hardly have had time to ask me any questions, and I knew that I would quite readily have agreed to supply any answer."

Great article Damon.

Here's another that Limbaugh surely failed to pass along to the sheep:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html

"The United States knows quite a bit about waterboarding. The U.S. government -- whether acting alone before domestic courts, commissions and courts-martial or as part of the world community -- has not only condemned the use of water torture but has severely punished those who applied it. 

After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war."

BOSSMAN2677:

The real sad part is now We get to pay to keep him alive, We get to pay to make him better, We get to pay for a trial, and We will get to pay for the mental screening, and we will probably get to pay for him to live in jail the rest of his natural life.  My heart goes out to the deceased, the wounded, and their familys.  Too bad his life wasnt ended then.

He is in the military. They have the death penalty and use it (Or at least they did 15 years ago when I was stationed in KS).

He will get stretched out on the black gumby and a needle in his arm.