The Yamaha Road Star Warrior Forum

Marco,

I'm not certain what's going on with your system. If anything, it should be further from bottoming when you're burying your foot. As far as the gasket, our lids are pocketed, with a channel to the screw holes. This eliminated the .040 hole we put on the top of the master cylinders by allowing the air to move through the channel and up through the screw hole.

This sounds a bit remedial, but you may want to switch the flat head bolt from one side of the lid to the other, just in the case that the flat head "actually" got a perfect seal. Then try bleeding up again. I can't figure why you would have this issue. One way to tell if your bleeding is done is to see if the brake light is working when you depress the pedal. Without enough pressure, the switch should not work appropriately.

Hope this helps a bit. Really not sure what you're experiencing.

I have no issues with the braking force of my rear brake with the phats forward controls. The majority of your efficient braking force is with the front anyway,the rear is just an assist.

One trick I learned on this forum though for post bleeding. Once you bleed the rear brake system the best you can,hang a weight (I use a plastic grocery bag filled with bottles of oil,what ever) on the brake pedal over night. It sounds foolish but it really workes. I think the constant pressure forces the air bubbles toward the resevoir and out.

Marco,

I've heard the same of the bleeding trick youngja is talking about. May want to try that. It's odd you're having any problems with that...these cylinders are a 10 year old design that have been without issue forever (exactly the reason I went back to them vs. the 11/16" that had occasional issues), and I've had zero...yep...zero complaints with this cylinder now or then.

Phat's also uses a 3/4" bore, same design as ours (I know the manufacturer, and can guarantee you they made no changes other than cosmetics...one of the machinists there worked for the old Legends, so all the designs and engineering was Legends/Supreme Legends, which they simply knocked off), so this particular issue that is happening is something beyond the master cylinder.

Either way... may want to pick through the forums for some advice.

youngja:

One trick I learned on this forum though for post bleeding. Once you bleed the rear brake system the best you can,hang a weight (I use a plastic grocery bag filled with bottles of oil,what ever) on the brake pedal over night. It sounds foolish but it really workes. I think the constant pressure forces the air bubbles toward the resevoir and out.

Yep, I did that also with some heavy rocks overnight after I bled them to get any micro bubbles that might be anywhere.

As far as the lid being channeled, I never noticed that so you may be on to something because the two screws are identical.  It sounds like that's not supposed to be the case??  I'll go out and double check again but as I recall they both were countersunk flush allen heads.  I remember taking the lid off and looking underneath and we noticed it said DOT5 which I asked you about but I don't remember noticing any channel to the screw holes.  Does that mean that that rubber gasket isn't supposed to suck in like the new one did or is that still normal even though the original designs didn't?

Marco,

Don't read into it too much. The lid design has been going on for nearly 3 years with no issue. The bolts are identical. No problem there, but what I'd said is that maybe you got a "perfect seal" whereas 99% of the time, there is not a perfect seal, and that's what we're counting on...just enough room to get a squirt of air out of there. The gasket is not the issue...it works as it should. On the previous master cylinder, you said you were not getting any bleed at all.

Did you verify all your lines, seals, banjos, banjo washers, etc? Make sure all the banjos are seating flush onto the surfaces they should be, make sure they're clean, etc. I really don't get what's going on here. If you want to try yet another master cylinder, ship the one you have back and we'll ship you another one, but this does not make any sense for you to have this many problems. It's very odd, and again, unless you're just having the worst bad luck streak ever, this latest and greatest master cylinder should be the fix.

That being said..call me, order your spacers, I'll ship a new MC out with them. You can send the other back. If this one doesn't work, I have no idea what is going on with your bike.

Last resort is figuring out how to put AlanH in a box and ship him up to you. You're on your own there.

LOL  Yeah, I'm stumped as well because I've checked all of those things looking for leaks and anything and gone back over the front and back several times but I can't see how it could be a bad MC this time either so who knows but I know I shouldn't be able to hit the wall with everything sealed and full with no air...  Eh, oh well.  I'm picking up the phone now to get the new spacer, quite reading this and go answer it. 

Okay Marco,

On it's way. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will cure all your woes. Once you install it, it will bleed right up, stop 20 times better than before, and when you take your first ride, you will choose to stop at a store and buy a lottery ticket. You will then win 10 million dollars, which will be just enough for the engineers at Yamaha to figure out what the problem has been the whole time, and you will still have enough money left to buy a 40 oz. to celebrate with...or at least that's what I would do.

bozack50:

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will cure all your woes. Once you install it, it will bleed right up, stop 20 times better than before, and when you take your first ride, you will choose to stop at a store and buy a lottery ticket. You will then win 10 million dollars, which will be just enough for the engineers at Yamaha to figure out what the problem has been the whole time, and you will still have enough money left to buy a 40 oz. to celebrate with...

+1    Gracias!

Marco Polo:

Does that mean that that rubber gasket isn't supposed to suck in like the new one did or is that still normal even though the original designs didn't? 

The purpose of the rubber gasket is to seal the brake fluid compound from the outside air because DOT3~4 fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture as is intended. As the fluid compound becomes saturated w/ moisture the boiling point lowers which can lead to brake failure. DOT5 fluid is not hygroscopic but tends to aerate which makes it more difficult to bleed. Bottom line, the Warrior is designed for DOT4.

If you're not able to develop any pedal at all i would bet that the single cross drilled hole in the bottom of the reservoir (closest to the outlet) isn't aligned with the frt edge of the piston seal when the piston is retracted  not allowing it to fill the chamber in front of the piston cup because of an improper adjustment of the pushrod. Brake pedal interference isn't an issue w/ FWD Ctrl's. The cross drilled hole furthest from the outlet port allows residual fluid back to the reservoir.

When manually bleeding the MC its best to always short stroke the piston and not bury or bottom it out. Remember the piston cup is crossing over the frt cross drilled hole every application of the brake

For testing purposes you can remove the rear brake hose and just use a short solid bolt w/ sealing washer and bleed at the bolt. If you can't get a rock hard pedal you've got something really wrong either in the adjustment or build!

GOOD LUCK

EDITED & FYI: remove and inspect your Yamaha frt brake MC cover which will confirm some of the above.

Have you actually bleed the banjo bolts themselves?  Many times I have seen a fluid brake/clutch systems on a motorcycle seem like it is bleed to the point where no bubbles come out of the bleeder valve but still develop little or no pressure.  Your symptoms can be completely caused by an air bubble trapped inside of a banjo bolt.  If you haven't already, apply pedal pressure and crack the seal on each banjo bolt one at a time just enough to let fluid leak out and retighten.  I always bleed my banjo bolts anytime I open up a fluid system, can save some serious frustrations.

 Just my .02

bpk0816:

Have you actually bleed the banjo bolts themselves?  Many times I have seen a fluid brake/clutch systems on a motorcycle seem like it is bleed to the point where no bubbles come out of the bleeder valve but still develop little or no pressure.  Your symptoms can be completely caused by an air bubble trapped inside of a banjo bolt.  If you haven't already, apply pedal pressure and crack the seal on each banjo bolt one at a time just enough to let fluid leak out and retighten.  I always bleed my banjo bolts anytime I open up a fluid system, can save some serious frustrations.

 Just my .02

Why, no.  Actually I didn't.  The next time I look into it I'll make sure to try that as well.  Thanks for the advice and tips guys.  Me and Bill talked about the possibility of the throw adjustment being a problem Alan and it sounds like you could be right.  I'll check that as well because I do remember when we were working on this before that we adjusted that quite a bit trying to find a way it might matter so maybe it's just not coming far enough back.

Great point bpk,

I had that issue before too. Those brake switches are about 1/2" longer than your standard banjo bolt, and have a lot of room to hide a bubble or two. Hopefully all the advice gets Marco's problem solved. I did ship him out yet another master cylinder, just to offer another possible solution, but Marco...if you're listening, I think the air in the banjo and the adjustment on the plunger into the piston could be two big possibilities.

I'm out of advice and options on there, and if you call me anymore, I'm going to expect bottles of Cazadores to be shipped to me after every phone call.

Hope it all works peachy.

Bill

bozack50:

I'm out of advice and options on there, and if you call me anymore, I'm going to expect bottles of Cazadores to be shipped to me after every phone call.

Ok, no more placing orders for stuff.  Got it!    lol  I'll get it figured out, no worries.  Thank you guys again for the advice.

Oh no....orders are fine. I'm thinking from now on, just for this bike...you should buy things like footpegs and grips that won't exhaust either of us, in trying to figure out why it's not working...LOL.

Enjoy your weekend.

Bill, I just got the spacers.  Wasn't it just yesterday that I placed the order?  Awesome!

 Everyone, these spacers are made with a very high craftsmanship.  I was very impressed the second I pulled them from the box.  And they are already on the bike, too.  Quick install.

I'm very glad I got these.  I was thinking that I was going to need to have me seat adjusted to push me forward.  The combination of the forward controls and my Wicked Bros pipe was burning my leg, at times.  With these installed, not only is that not an issue any longer, but I'm even more comfortable.  I only went for a quick ride around the neighborhood, but the comfort was clearly evident.  Great product.

 I also have a suggestion.  How about offering a couple of different offsets?  A 1 inch and a 2 inch.  That way, the owner can move his controls 1 or 2 inches either forward or rearward.  I'd be able to move them rearward because of my choice of pipes.

 Again, I love 'em.

I'll post pics hopefully tomorrow so I can take some in the light.